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How do you go from being a producer in the studio to being a playback tech on

the road, working with artists like Sean Mendez? Do a Lipa M 83.

You're gonna hear exactly the path that my friend Martin Roberts took to do just

that. Plus,

you'll hear the one tool that he says he doesn't think he could do a playback

gig without. Hey,

everyone walking back to Behind the Space Bar, if this is your first time here,

I'm so glad you're here.

This is a show for people that are running tracks on stage,

using Ableton Live on stage to perform, or one day hoping to do that. Uh,

this is one of my favorite types of shows to record, which is a interview show.

Uh, and today I'm talking to Martin Roberts. And, um, Martin and I, uh,

connected over Instagram. You'll hear a bit of the story of how that happened,

but he basically reached out to me to encourage me.

We kind of started a conversation. I said, Martin,

I'd love for people to hear your story and get to know you.

And so he was very generous with this time to join me here on the podcast.

But what I love about this particular conversation with Martin that you'll pick

up is you'll hear his journey,

journey from being a producer to playing keys on stage with a band when he felt

like he wasn't ready to do that, to becoming a playback tech.

Working with artists, like I mentioned the intro, like Sean Mendez, uh, du Lipa,

uh, M 83, uh, and now he's currently on the road, uh,

as keys tech for Depeche Mode. Uh, he's incredibly, incredibly talented.

He knows tech. Uh, he knows, uh, how to set up a connected stage experience.

We talk about I connectivity gear. Plus, you're gonna hear,

like I mentioned and tease in the intro, um, the one app,

the one utility that he says he doesn't think he could do a playback gig

without. Uh,

plus you'll hear how he transitioned from session view to range of view,

and exactly why he did that. So this was such a fun conversation. Uh,

before we get into that conversation, I just wanna ask,

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what you really enjoyed about today's episode, uh,

respond in real time as if you were a part of the conversation with Martin.

And I. Uh, without any further ado,

let's dive into my conversation with Martin Roberts. Uh, Martin,

thanks so much for joining me.

No problem, man. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah,

This is gonna be super fun. So before we start, uh,

there's a question I ask everyone, and then,

then we'll kind of get to like the fun stuff. But, um, I, I,

I try to start off the interview nice and light, very easy question. So,

if you had to attribute your success, your, your career,

uh, where you are kind of in this station of life as far as music, playback,

tech and stuff goes to, to one thing, and I I always try to say like,

what's your unfair advantage?

What's something that you feel like you just comes naturally to you that other

people struggle with? If you had to pick one thing,

what would that one thing be?

That's the first question, man. That's right. That's right. Gosh.

Um, it's really hard to say honestly.

Uh, certainly a short notice like that. But, um, honestly, I think the,

the, the most important and most sort of, um,

yeah, yeah,

the most important thing in my career has been the connections I've made over,

like, over the time. And certainly when I started out, you know, it was,

it was very much through knowing the right person at the right time.

Yeah.

And really just like being very diligent with my work and what I did,

and, you know, making sure that, you know,

that person could then recommend me onto someone else and go kind of go from

there. And, and really that's how my career is built, is that it, you know,

it's, it starts small and then you get recommended. You get recommended,

and hopefully you get recommended. But I, I think that's really the,

the most important thing for me is the people I've met,

like throughout the time. And the,

and those relationships have lasted, you know, like I'm,

I'm still in touch with all the people that I've worked with previously. So,

you know, I, I think the easy answer to to, to that question is,

relationship is the most important thing in my career.

I think that's fair to say.

That's really good. The word that comes to mind, uh, and we, this is,

this is a fun time to do a podcast, is we've actually never talked face to face.

We've never talked virtually like this just over Instagram. Mm-hmm. But I love,

like,

this is part of the joy I have in doing this podcast is getting to know people,

getting to hear their stories.

But a word that came to mind for me is connector and Right. And, and,

and obviously I'm asking, I'm talking to you about your success, but I, uh,

I wonder if you see in yourself a trait of also reciprocating

what's been given to you of, like, are you,

do you also have the skill of connecting other people to other gigs?

Like if something comes up that you can't do, like,

is that something that you also see yourself doing?

Yeah, for sure. And, you know, certainly whenever I can,

I'll always try and get people involved, you know, I mean,

and that's kind of why I first reached out to you. You know, it was,

it was because I wanted to say, you know, thank you for, you know,

putting all this information out there for people that, you know, were,

were starting out in the industry or didn't know what tracks were,

what stems were, what, you know, all of that stuff. Like,

that's why I reached out because I thought, you know what, this is,

this is really good stuff for, for people coming into this industry.

And I just wanted to sort of thank you for doing that,

because there's not enough of that at the moment. And it, you know,

it is starting to, you know, bring, bring, bring that young talent in.

But that's very much where I'm at now, is that I really wanted to see more,

more people succeed and bring as many people in as I can, you know?

Yeah. I love that. Well, and thank you for reaching out too. Um, pleasure. I,

I was going back through, um, uh, dms and maybe, maybe once or twice a month.

It depends on, I guess how the, the stars align or something that, uh,

I'll get people that just randomly unsolicited unsolicitedly, if that,

if I could say that. Uh, we'll reach out and just say, Hey,

thanks for your content. Um, you know, which, it always means a lot to me,

so thank you for saying that. And, um, you know,

and that's obviously what led to us chatting, cuz it's like, yeah. You know,

I wanna get to hear more of your story and what you're doing. So let's, let's,

um, there, I'm gonna make a note as you start to talk, I'm gonna listen,

but there's something I wanna circle back to that we said earlier.

We'll get to in, in a moment. But, um, let's, let's kind of,

now that we've got the tough one out of the way,

let's just start with just a brief introduction. Tell everyone who you are,

what you do, maybe some artists you've worked with,

and then I wanna unpack your kind of your, your, your path to get there,

if you will.

Cool. Yeah, for sure. Uh, so my name's Martin Roberts,

as we probably know by now. Um, I'm a, I'm a musician music director,

playback engineer. And anything that falls within those things, you know,

like a man of, uh, many trades and master of none, um,

over the years, uh, worked, I mean, my, my sort of main gig for the past,

I'd say maybe five years has been Sean Mendes. Uh,

it's been a really fun gig for me, uh, previously that was with Du Lipa, um,

M 83 for a while. Um, I've been doing editors,

been doing some sort of work with them, uh, Wolf Alice, the list,

the list couldn't go on. You know, I've been,

I've been around for probably 10 years or so now, so that's awesome. You know,

the list of names grows, grows every day. But, um, yeah,

they're probably the sort of main ones that have been the sort of big ones of my

career career so far, I'd say.

That's awesome. And you mentioned music director in there, so I always want to,

um, let's kind of, I heard a guy use this term and I was like, oh,

I kind of like that. He said, let's double click on that.

So I wanna double click on that for a second. Sure. Um, so, uh, are, are you a,

uh, musician by trade? Are,

is there one instrument you specialize in or what's kind of your musical side of

that? If, if, if you will?

Well, so like piano keys is what I've have is,

is what I've always played. You know, I started learning piano when I was, um,

I guess I was about 12, maybe. Hmm. Um, and really, you know, I,

I've been sort of dipping in and out of that over the years and then sort of led

into production. I'm, I'm,

I'm probably going into a bit too much detail for this question right now.

No, this is great. This is great.

Yeah. Um, you know,

the sort of playing keyboard then led to production and songwriting and

whatever. And like, essentially that led me to like,

like my first ever gig was playing keys for a German band called Chiller. Okay.

Um, which was, which was, was an amazing gig for me. Um,

and it was a gig that at the time I,

I really didn't think I was ready for it, you know, like,

it was kind of came at a time in my life where I hadn't really played keys

properly for a long time. So I was really doubting myself and like,

can I actually do this? Like, it was,

it was to the point where I almost didn't take the gig cause I didn't think I

could do it. Wow. Uh, but with, you know, persuasion from everyone around me,

um, I took it and it was the best thing I could have ever done. But, um, yeah,

that's kind of the progression into that sort of music, the musician side.

You know, 2013 is when I started doing this professionally. But,

you know, for years, decades before that I was writing and remixing and, uh,

doing all the studio stuff. Okay. And really the,

the sort of music director side of it, um, you know,

for me it's, it kind of, I guess similar for you as well.

Someone that, you know, does,

does music direction and does playback and whatever. You kind of,

you kind of like,

you got that balance of being a tech and being a musician and being whatever,

you know, so it kind of comes and goes. Um,

but like for me, the music director side of it,

that's the part I enjoy the most because it's kind of that, like,

that cross between the studio and the stage. Not to,

not to, uh, quote your title too much, but yeah. Make

A, make a great company name. I like that. That's

Great. Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, you know, it, it is kind of that,

that bridge between the student and stage that I really enjoy and like,

getting the details and like,

like really putting in the work to make everything sound as good as you can

possibly get it. Yeah. I think that's, um,

Let's, let's pause just for a moment because, um, I,

I think most people that listen to the podcast, most people that follow my,

my content are coming at it from like, I wanna learn to use tracks on stage.

I wanna use Ableton live on stage.

But what I'm realizing is there's more and more folks listening that go, oh, uh,

how to do this in Ableton, find some tutorial I have. And then they suddenly,

they're kind of like awakened to the idea of what tracks are. Uh,

they're awakened to the idea of, oh, there's a playback tech. And,

and sometimes they like that and sometimes they don't. But, um, I,

I know for a fact there are people listening to this that have never stepped on

stage and performed. Um, they are not playback techs, but they are,

let's call them studio people, right? They're studio cats, you know,

let's call 'em cats. Cuz that's a fun hip word to use, uh, as is the word hip.

But, um, just for a moment,

because you said your experience is like producing and creating and you enjoy

how music direction is the bridge to the live thing. Um,

talk a little bit more about that if you can,

or give some encouragement to people that are listening to this that are like,

I'm a producer. I'm, I'm a studio person, I can create music really quickly,

but I wonder if there's something I could do live. What, what,

what does that look like? What's some encouragement you can give to those folks?

I think, um,

one thing that I really take with me everywhere I go is that sort of,

that studio mentality and like, uh,

discipline I guess is, is the right word. You know, having,

having done it for you, you're sort of part-time,

certainly for most of my adult life, you know, you, you like,

you really get into those details and you really, you know,

you kind of see a song as a totally different thing to a lot of people, I think.

Yeah. You know, whe whether,

whether it's your own song or whether it's someone else who's like,

I think producers and engineers and whatever have very specific

ears that listen for different things, you know? Hmm.

And I think that's a really,

that's a really good thing to have certainly in the live environment because

there's, there's so much that can go into a live show. Yeah.

And you really have to be, certainly now I think you have to really be pretty,

like specific as to what you wanna take from a studio session and

what's gonna be played live and what's gonna be on track and what you're

actually gonna leave out. You know, like maybe less is more, maybe more is more,

who knows. But, you know, that's,

that's all very specific to the artists you're working with, I think.

But I think certainly for me, I never,

I never really saw myself as a musician until I was one.

If that makes sense.

Yeah, that's good.

Um, like

I was always a studio guy and I could play keys, but like,

I was never a musician.

I was just a guy that could sit in a studio and play and kind of, you know,

I could pick up a guitar and I could play a guitar, but I was never a guitarist,

you know, whatever. Um,

and it's only really through jumping into that role that I can,

I can now sort of call myself a musician. I can call myself a,

a keys player or a guitarist or a bass player, whatever, you know? Yeah.

And I think that really only comes from experience and from wanting that

experience. Um, and I think certainly for me,

mu like mu like music direction is,

or was a really nice way to step into that,

if that makes sense. It does. Yeah. It's kind of come from that,

that studio world into live world and like,

it's kind of the same role really. Yeah.

The sort of bare bones of it is the same role. Um, certainly part of it.

And as I say, it's that discipline taking,

taking that discipline you have in the studio and adapting it to,

to a live environment is, I think, really key.

Yeah. I, it's interesting cuz I, I think when you, you said, you know, it's,

it's like, it's the same role and I think that's such a great way to put it.

And for people that, that have not stepped on stage,

that have not served as a music director, I mean,

it does feel like there's so many skills. There's just a perfect tie in.

Like you're, you're used to staring at a timeline, you know, you're,

you're used to, um, I,

I've always felt like I kind of have a producer's mindset and I've produced a

few records and, um, but not, you know, anything that's gonna get a Grammy. Uh,

but like I have produced music and worked with a lot of different artists. Um,

and the thing I've always loved about producing is it's less about, ooh,

let's get this really cool guitar lick. And it's more about like,

we have this song and what serves the song and the ability to like,

see the whole picture, but then at the same time be able to,

to use that term you used earlier, double click in and zoom in and go, oh,

well this, this one keys part,

having it play here and not play there adds thematically to making the course

really feel massive or whatever. And, um, and I think you said that really well.

If, if you have that skill as a producer, um, you know,

you can very easily translate that to live because they're, that's, I mean,

there's a lot of translation there. But then like you said,

and I want to talk just a little bit more about this,

that whole aspect of an artist does a a, an album. They record a song,

they go to do that live. There is that question of,

and I'm glad you brought this up cuz I actually have a note card that says

what's in the tracks as like a potential behind the space bar episode to do.

Because there does have to be that conversation of what do we take from the

record? What do we lose? What do we keep, what do we bring to live? Um,

can you talk just for a moment,

and obviously you listed multiple different artists,

so not necessarily tied into one specific one,

but of the artists you've worked with in the past five years or so,

five to 10 years, what has the process been, um,

and how have you been involved in going, okay,

you have this album you just finished up, we're about to take it on the road.

How do you decide what from that album makes it to the road?

What parts are kept, what parts are, are thrown away?

What parts are played live?

Yeah, so for me,

I think it really differs and it depends on what artists you're working with,

you know, because, uh, one artist might love tracks,

another one might not like it, but but needs it, but you know, whatever,

you know, and there's really that fair fine line of you've gotta walk and that

conversation you've gotta have. Um, I'll give you an example. Um,

I started working with a guy called Bo, uh, back in 2020 I guess.

Okay. Uh, sort of mid lockdown. He's is a sort of singer songwriter from, uh,

the uk like nicest guy in the world.

And he's got a really cool sound. But honestly,

I, I don't think I'd have latched onto unless I was working on it,

if that makes sense. Yeah.

It's not something that would've come on my radar unless I was working on it.

Okay. But I really love working on it. And, um,

what's been really fun with him is cuz I've been with him since the start,

since his first live show. Um, you know,

sort of seeing him grow and seeing him come out of his shell and what he wants,

being vocal about what he wants to be on track and what he wants to play live

and whatever.

And like that was really much a very like one-on-one conversation

of, okay, so you're gonna play this on this song, what do you want on track?

What do you not? And it was, it was a very collaborative experience,

which was really nice. Um, cuz not only it sort of took the,

took the weight of me a little bit,

but it kind of made sure that he was comfortable with it as well. You know,

it wasn't that I was just gonna send him a session and he had to use that

session and be, be happy with it. It was very much a like, okay, here's,

here's what I've done. Do you like this? Do you like that?

I've done this transition, I've done, you know, we are looping this part,

we're doing that. We're gonna have you play this and then whatever. And then,

you know, he'd come back and say, oh, well maybe let's do this and do that.

And it was very much a collaborative thing, which I really like.

And it's becoming more of that as, as as as time goes on. Um,

but yeah, for him, you know, it's,

I don't think it's any secret that he, that he runs track. It's, you know, it's,

it's very prominent. I'd say it's only a three piece band.

It's him playing guitar and singing. Uh, he's got a bass player and, and,

and a drummer. So then the rest of it is all on track, which, you know, is,

is it is quite sort of synth heavy stuff. Um,

there's a lot going on. And like,

I'd say in the sort of original, uh, iteration of it,

the bass player was also playing keys. So we kind of,

we kind of had that sort of line where she'd, you know,

she'd hop on the base for,

for a bit and then she'd go over to the keys eventually through various

problems and whatever. We decided, you know what, this isn't working,

so just stick to base. Um, so now all of the keys are on track,

which

Oh, cool. Okay.

Yeah. Which, you know, in, in my mind,

it's not something I would typically do. Yeah. Um,

because for me it's, I dunno about you, but like, when I go and see a band,

if I'm not working on it, when I go and see a band, I'm constantly thinking, oh,

what's on track? You know, like, that's

Right. That's right.

It's, uh, it annoys my wife. No end, I'm, I'm sure. But, um,

it's, uh, so for me, like having it,

having all these keys on track is like, uh, oh, it's a bit strange. Like,

it's not something I would've doze in myself,

but because he's also been so involved, you know, it's,

it's kind of his baby as well. So it's really this like,

collaborative project we're kind of working on, which is, which is really nice.

That's cool. I love the word collaboration cuz I think, um, uh, you know, it,

it's always kind of, uh, or not always, but often with playback, it's like,

are you banned? Are you tech? And if you're tech, it's like,

keep your mouth shut, just press play. That's it. And if you're banned,

then like, maybe you can be a little more expressive and throw ideas out.

But just that idea of collaboration and, and,

and I think tracks kind of serve two purposes. It's,

it's to make the people on sage feel comfortable, which sometimes is, is,

you know, different, uh, cues or slate tracks in different parts of the song.

Um, you know,

it's adding bits in to make it a little more easy to play live or to play every

single night, you know, when you're on a three month run kind of deal. Um,

and then there's also the what happened in the studio and replicating that live

aspect, which is maybe more for the audience than the band,

but to be involved in that collaborative process. That sounds,

that sounds like that would be a really fun thing to, to do.

Yeah, it was. And I mean it's, you know, it's, it's,

it's an ongoing thing as I say. So it's, uh, yeah, it's,

it's a really fun project to do because as I say, it's the sort of,

he's the sort of,

it's that I wouldn't necessarily come across unless I was working on it,

unless it was put in front of me. Yeah. And so and so, so to work on it in,

in such a sort of, uh, I guess double click kind of way is,

um, it's nice because it, you know, it's, it's, it's a different style,

style of music than I'm used to,

but it allows me to bring what I know from all the other different styles of

music that, that I do and listen to and whatever,

and kind of bring that into what he does and for, and,

and for me to learn from what he does as well. You know, it's, it's,

it's kind of really nice.

That's really cool. Can we, um, I want to dive, uh, a little more into like,

some specifics of playback stuff with you. So one, um, um,

what does, when you're doing playback, you know, uh, on stage or,

or let me rephrase that. When you're doing playback with an artist,

are you typically on stage with them? Are you side of stage,

maybe paint a picture for people that, um,

are running tracks with a band and they've never been a playback tech or they're

unfamiliar with what a playback tech is. Like,

kind of where are you during the show and what is communication with the artist

or the music director look like during a show for you as a playback tech?

So, yeah, I mean, again, my, my, I kind of, uh, I think I, I,

I've straddle a couple of different roles on lots of my gigs cause, uh,

just just cuz of what I do, you know? Yeah. But, um, as a,

as a specific playback tech, you know, I'm,

I'm off stage usually stage left where sort of mon where monitor world is.

Um, and, you know, I'm just kind of hidden away, uh,

behind a couple of laptops and a couple of racks and, you know,

I'm just there to, to make sure the show runs smoothly. Yeah. Uh, you know,

that's from, you know, loading in to loading out and everything in between.

Uh, but obviously ma but mainly the show and making sure that, you know,

you start the intro at the right place,

you start the next song at the right place,

and you're kind of giving everyone the right amount of time to do what they need

to do before you, before you're sort of jumping too far ahead, you know?

Yeah. And yeah, just kind of doing, doing everything that's, you know,

sort of track side, you know, running, running all the stems, uh,

doing all, doing the edits that maybe the music director needs me to do.

Um, and then, you know,

that can also sort of jump out into other roles, which,

you know, like preparing like sample stuff from the stems.

So, so the keyboard player can play this stuff, you know, and that's good.

They're playing a sample of,

or whatever from the standard as opposed to recreating it or finding a

totally different sound or it's, you know, sound design and, uh,

actually recreating that sound on this keyboard or that synth or whatever.

So there's a lot of different, you know, layers to it, I think.

And it really depends who I'm working with, what the gig is.

Um, and you know, actually what's happening,

because a lot of people just have playback that's, you know, start, stop, start,

stop, start, stop. Whereas, and I'm seeing it a lot more now,

there's a, there's other people that use it in a totally different way,

and it's almost an instrument, you know? Yeah, yeah. And, you know, your, your,

your live looping, your, uh, you know,

you've got lyrics happening on stage now. You've got,

as I say, you know, there's the whole sampling stuff from the,

from the stems or recreating the stuff like that. It's all I, for me,

it's all part of that role. Yeah. And, you know,

one day I could be just pressing play the next day I could be building out a

whole maybe stage rig and, you know, who knows? But it's, yeah.

But there's kinda all these layers too. I think

That's really good. How do you a as you were talking about that,

I was just thinking, I,

I think part of what I've always enjoyed about playback in,

in everything kind of related to it is the fact that it's always new.

It's always moving constantly. Um, I mean, as we record this,

I'm looking at a piece of gear that's unreleased that has not been announced

that will be absolutely game changing in the playback world.

Um, I just did a video for a, a piece of software that is released now, uh,

lyrics by Strange Electronic. Mm-hmm. Uh, that is absolutely game changing. Uh,

two weeks before that,

I did a video for able set the brand new version able set too,

which is absolutely game changing. But, um,

I love that stuff constantly is changing, and you have to be on your toes.

And it's not a sit back arms cross, this is how we've done it for years,

kid leave me alone. How do you personally keep up with like,

the new stuff that's coming? And then when you're in a situation where, um,

you know, maybe because of your studio experience,

you know how to pull something from a, a stem, turning it into a sample,

load it into a, a sampler in Napleton or, and, and, and main stage whatever,

and have the keys player play that. But if you're on the road,

if you're getting ready to work with an artist and someone says, Martin, I I,

I really would like to blank, and you're going,

I have no idea how the hell to do this. What, what's like, in your mind,

what are the steps you take to figure that out and then to make that happen?

That's a great question. Um, so like, I guess one thing you,

you should know about me is that I love to be busy. Uh, I love to be,

you know, challenged. I love to be creative.

I love to be able to be all those things. And when I'm not,

that's when I probably do my best work, is that, you know, I,

I've really dig deep into stuff that I have no idea about. And I, and I, I,

I guess I try and preempt those things of, oh, can, can you do this?

And I'm like, no, I can't. You know? So I,

I kind of try and preempt that and I try and learn these things before it's too

late. And I, and I'm, and I'm in that situation. That's great. Um,

but you know what, like, I'll take you right back to the beginning. My,

my first ever gig as a tech, uh, would've been,

I guess 2014. Okay. Um, uh,

so this was after the tour I'd done with Sheila where I was playing. Uh, and,

you know, it was just a, it's just a gig that I, that I took,

someone sort of reached out that I'd been in touch with previously.

He needed a depth. And then, you know, like, I was like, yeah, sure, I'll do it.

Like, at that point, I don't think I'd even touched Ableton. Mm-hmm. Like a,

aside from doing some like DJ stuff with it years before, you know,

like I hadn't even touched Ableton at all. And I walk into this gig and like,

it was Ableton obviously. Mm-hmm. And I had no idea. Like, I really,

I just had some really like, just kind of fake it until I made it. Like,

and you know, it's not something I'm proud to say, you know, like I, and,

and it's not something I do now luckily, but mm-hmm. Honestly,

I think that's kind of where, uh,

where some good stuff can happen Yeah.

Is when you're thrown into a situation where you don't quite know what you're

doing and you've gotta learn it on the spot and you've gotta just do it,

you know? Yeah. Um, and I think early on,

certainly that was, that's how I learned a lot of what I know about Able, about,

about Ableton now. Um, whereas now as I say,

I'm kind of preempting these, these,

these things and like doing the work beforehand. Uh, yeah.

I kind of first came across able set during lockdown in like 2020. Oh, cool.

Uh, so I guess similar to you, um,

I'd always used Session View, you know, it's just how I'd learned it really,

because I was doing these shows that use Session View. Mm-hmm. And, um,

the, the sort of, so the 2019 Shawn Mendes tour, we did that,

that was all in Session View, and I spent the entire time, you know,

running these songs in Session View,

but then we'd go into like Sound Check the next day and we'd change

part of the song and then had to bounce it all out again,

put it back into the session view. And it was just so tedious, you know, like,

and it really, it really got to me. So like, and like we, like, we did it a lot.

It was like every other day there was a change, or, and you know, that's, that,

that's part of it, you know, it's not, it's not me complaining about it,

but it was, you know, it's part of the gig. Um, but, you know, part of that,

you know,

back and forth between arrangement and session view was really killing me

because not killing me. It's like, it's the hardest thing in the world,

but it's, you know, it's like that, that that sort of wasted time.

You're sort of sitting there and doing these things where you could be doing

something else, or you've got other things to do. Anyway, so, you know,

2020 came along, lockdown happened, and I'm, as I say, I love to be busy,

so, so 2020 for me was like, wow, this is, this is hard. You know,

like sat there twiddling my thumbs, so Oh, I do. Yeah, exactly. And, um,

so I sort of took it upon myself to, you know, take that 2019 show that we did,

and I was like, right, I'm gonna put this into Session View, and I'm gonna,

sorry into View, and I'm gonna see if I can make this work,

because I don't wanna have to keep doing those edits every day and put them back

in the session. Anyway. So I did that,

and obviously there was things I couldn't do. There was things, you know,

we had some looping going on. We had some, uh, follow action stuff going on.

Mm-hmm. So there's stuff I couldn't do within, within Arrangement View,

which is, well, I discovered Able Set, and like, I,

I, I just, I've fell in love with it straight away. And, uh, you know,

I'm good friends with Leo now, and, you know,

I've been sort of beta testing a lot of his stuff over the past couple of years.

And, you know, it, it's through,

it's through the want to be better that I discover these things. That's, or,

you know, the want to be better or the want to make things easier,

or the want to save time or whatever. You know, it's, yeah, it's this, for me,

it's like a hunger of wanting to be busy and wanting to do stuff,

but it leads you to somewhere that I think is quite,

it's quite nice that you're kind of prepared for these things where you're not

in that situation where someone says, can you do this? And you're like,

probably not.

That's, um, gosh, I, I, I wish we could go back and like,

replay that and just play that three times over.

And that's the rest of the podcast because, um, I mean, one, you,

you just perfectly laid out what I try in every video I do to,

to explain to people, um, you know, and I'm not a session view hater.

There's a lot of fantastic uses for Session View.

If you're doing live looping on stage, you should highly consider it.

If you're using Ableton just for keys, you should highly consider it.

If you're di, you know, demoing songs as a songwriter,

you should highly consider it.

But if you're running tracks and you are working with an artist, uh,

who the only thing, um,

the only thing that artists never change their mind on is the fact that they're

gonna change their mind. And that's why, to me,

arrangement View is like the perfect solution for those quick edits.

It's right there. Um, so I love that. I mean, again, everyone go back, hit,

hit back on the podcast player, skip back on YouTube and listen to that. Um,

you, you threw out Able set, which again, Leo is, is a freaking genius.

Like when he sent me Able Set too, I, I kind of,

it took a couple days and I like casually looked at it,

and then I opened it and I was like, I literally emailed him back and I said,

dude, you are a genius. This is unbelievable.

It's always getting better and better. But, uh, you mentioned Able Set is a,

a really incredible tool. What are, I mean, if you had to give us, uh, you know,

either your normal gear list,

stuff you use or gear that's just like pleasant to work with, that you,

every time you plug this interface in, this mini controller, this plugin,

whatever it is that you're like, my life is so much easier when I use this.

What are some of those tools for you that you use pretty frequently?

Uh, I mean, top of the list is able set. I, I,

I don't think I could do a gig now without it. Not that I would not like,

couldn't do it, but I wouldn't like to do it. Uh, you know, I,

I feel like it's such a big part of what I do now. And, um,

and, you know, actually it was, uh,

I ki I kind of stumbled on it by mistake as well. Well, not, not,

not by mistake, but I, I came across Leo through a different device he made.

Okay. Uh, I think he was doing a, like an,

like an LTC to midi to an LTC to,

to NTC converter. I found it on Reddit. It was like,

this is exactly what I needed. Cause we do a lot of stuff with that on, on the,

on the Sean Mendez.

So I needed NTC and I found this thing on Reddit and I reached out to

Leo and uh, was like, oh, can you add this? Can you do this? Can, oh, this,

this, this isn't working. Can you, can you change this?

And through that is how I discovered Able set, because, you know,

a few months earlier he'd, he, he posted that.

So I kind of stumbled on it that way. And honestly it's,

it's made my life so much easier and actually so much more fun. Um,

dunno if fun's the right word, but, um,

Honestly, I get that though. I mean, I, yeah, I get that.

Yeah. And as I say, it's, uh, it's such a big part of my workflow now,

but I don't think I would enjoy doing a, doing a gig without it. Yeah.

Um, and you know, I've been, I've been quite involved with Leo in, uh,

sort of beatta testing his, uh, lyrics feature,

which I know you've recently talked about. Yep. Um, you know, I've been,

I've been doing that with him for probably a year, may, maybe a year,

I don't know, maybe a year now. Um, wow. Yeah.

And it's been really fun to like be a part of that and to see all these new

features he's bringing and, you know, just as, as you say,

it's like an ever-changing thing and ever-evolving thing, which I really enjoy.

Yeah. So yeah, certainly able set is top of that list, um,

regards to anything else, um, gear wise?

That's a great question. Um,

I don't know if there's any hardware that I was like, take with me to every gig.

Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah. It's, uh, it's this a strange one. Um,

well let

Me, let me ask a question that maybe gets us into some of that. So yeah, you,

you get hired for Sean Mendez or M Eddie three,

or any of these bands that you mentioned that you've worked with recently. Do,

do you come into a situation where there's already gear? Or do they say, Martin,

we want to do playback, buy a rig and let's do it?

Uh, it depends. Um, okay. Certainly there's been,

there's been bands that I've come in and they've said, right,

we haven't got a rig, we need everything. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And then, you know, then in which case it's, uh, okay, well, what's your budget?

You know, is it a, is it an like connectivity rig? Is it a,

uh, you know, is it a Maddy rig? Is it what, you know, there's a whole,

there's a whole load of things there. You could a whole,

a whole broad spectrum of things. You could, you could spend money on there,

but Yeah. Uh, but yeah,

then there's other gigs that I've walked in and they've already got a rig and

you've kind of, you know, trying to adapt to that.

So like when I started Sean Mendes, essentially,

they didn't have a playback tech before, but, but they had a rig. Okay.

And it was run by whoever was around at the time, kinda thing. You know,

sometimes the production manager would go in and he, and he, he'd be doing it.

Sometimes the MD would be involved,

sometimes the stage manager would be involved, you know,

they didn't have a dedicated guy.

So I kind of came in in 2019 and I was that guy.

But, you know,

I kind of walked into AIG that was already built and essentially a session that

was pretty much built, but for me,

not quite how I'd have built it. Yes.

So like a lot of the first couple of weeks while I was there during,

during band rehearsals was me trying stuff out, you know, so we'd,

you know, we'd do a, we'd do a day rehearsal,

and then I'd have all these ideas that I'd wanna do or try and I'd then I'd,

at the end of the day, I'd spend a couple hours or all night doing,

trying out these ideas to then bring in the next day and be like, oh,

should we try this? Should we try that? That's cool. You know, that's cool.

And like that I think is kind of where we've ended up. Now I've got,

I've got a really great, great relationship with Sean's MD Zin, and, um,

we've kind of got this really nice back and forth now where I think he can kind

of trust me to do what he needs to, what he needs doing.

And I can bring these ideas in that I've got, whether it, you know,

whether it be a, a looping thing or a whatever, you know, whatever it is. I,

I, I can bring in these ideas. Sometimes it's a no, sometimes it's, yeah,

let's try it. Sometimes it doesn't work, you know, whatever. But you know,

it's this, it's this really nice thing.

So that kind of started with me going into this gig with, with having a,

with having a rig already built,

which I've kind of maneuvered my way into as it were.

And, um, you know, it's kind of built up from there.

And essentially we're still running the same rig,

but it's just now expanded out massively. That's great. It's,

it is a mental rig now. Uh, which

Can you talk us through as much as you're allowed to? Or can, what,

what's the unique stuff in that rig that makes that like so mental and so cool?

Um, there's just a lot going on, honestly. So, okay.

When I came into the gig, there was, there was no mini whatsoever. Okay.

There was, you know, there was,

there was playback and the band were on stage and they did their thing. Um,

but throughout the year, you know, we started adding things in. Uh,

maybe the bass player needed some program changes. Uh,

maybe the drummer needed some program changes for his, for his drum brain.

Um, you know, part of it was part, part of that rig as well is the keyboard rig,

which is on main stage. Uh,

maybe they needed some like mid clock from, from, uh, from Ableton.

All these things that just started kind of started adding up throughout the

year. And like, eventually it was just this rig that was like, uh, if you,

if you move anything, it's gonna, it's gonna come apart, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Um, so that, so that's why, you know, 2020 was,

it was kind of, kind of nice in a way, but not in a, not in many other ways,

obviously. Yeah. Uh, where I had that time to like,

sit down and think, right, what do I want to do for this next tour? You know,

like, I know I don't wanna be using session for you, so let's fix that,

fix that.

And then we had a whole other list of things we

needed to achieve. We,

we we're gonna have a b stage where the band would have a completely replicate,

uh, set up. So essentially two, two stages running the same gear

that I had to figure out, okay,

is it all gonna be on this one rig or is we gonna need two rigs?

Are we gonna need this that, you know? Mm-hmm. Um,

and then, I mean, specifically,

I don't know if there's anything that crazy about it,

but, you know, we have, we,

I think the rig I built in 2022 last year

before we went out, it was a pretty mammoth thing. Like yeah, we,

we, we, we had the same, essentially the same sort of bare bones of the rig,

which was, which was a Maddy rig, so a fair fish and a, uh,

direct out box. Um, you know, that was the bare bones of it,

but then adding all this mid into it as well. So, uh, you know, I put a,

uh, I put a mxm, no, no, sorry,

XL in the, in, in, in the main rack. And then basically we had,

I think seven neo xms around Wow. Different places, like, yeah.

And, and all on Cat five or Cat six. Um, and yeah,

it was just like basically Onem XM for everyone,

you know, like a That's great Oprah scenario. Um, and like,

it was really nice. It was like a really nice build in the end, but like,

I think to come, I think to go back into it is gonna be a bit of a,

uh, thing to, to try and figure out my head around. But like,

yeah, there's, there's just a lot going on. You know, we've got, um,

obviously it's running able set now. Um,

I myself don't actually run the tracks. I just kind of look after them.

We've got a stage manager that, that essentially presses play and stop,

and he's like, show caller. Okay.

So he'll be in Sean's ear to tell him what's next and whatever,

and, and he'll be the one pressing play. So, so he's got an iPad, that's all,

you know, again, he's got a, so yeah, I iPad connected to a Mxm,

which is connected to my me xl. Um,

and then, so he's running the show, but I can see everything, you know,

I've got, I, I've got, I've got performance view up, I've got this,

I've got the set this view up, and then I've got the, the tracks in front of me.

Um, I've got the keyboard ring next to me as well. Mm-hmm. Um,

yeah. And there's lots of mid going on, lots of mid for guitar, guitar world,

like lots of pedal stuff, like lots of, uh,

guitar pedals on MIDI that are getting changes or, you know,

volume ramps or whatever. Um, yeah,

it's just a lot, uh, MTC going all sorts of places as well.

Yeah,

It's, yeah, it's, it's a lot.

And I think it's kind of hard to go into in detail without kind of seeing it at

this point, but Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a lot.

I, I love, uh, what you explained though at the core,

because every piece of gear you mentioned is accessible to anyone

watching this or Yeah. You know,

let's think of it in components and as a modular rig,

which I think is the right way to build anything, is we have, you know,

redundant playback system. Um,

we then wanna start sending MIDI to different things and we go, okay,

we can maybe start by sending a five pin cable from our interface to

the drummer or whatever. Yeah. And then we start to go, no,

let's actually create like a connected stage to where maybe you don't use it,

but we build this modular rig. Like, I love that you said, cuz to me,

this is the dream rig that every single position gets a me o xm, you know? Yeah.

It's like, let's just, let's give front of house one. Let's give monitors one,

let's give stage management, let's give everybody, and, um,

and I'm also sad that there's a certain demographic that will not get the Oprah

reference that you made. So, uh, makes, makes me feel old that, uh,

some people will not understand that. But, um,

I love that just you kind of built this in a modular way.

You started with what you had. You went, okay, let's, let's tweak this.

Let's get this to where it's customizable and then let's build a,

a connected stage where everyone, we can send MIDI back and forth. And,

and what's great about that too is you don't have to do that,

but now you have the flexibility if program changes come up, if, you know,

CC for volume comes up, it's patched in and it's a real Exactly. Easy, you know,

relatively speaking fix to add in, which I think is really, really cool.

That's right. Yeah, definitely. Um,

Uh, it maybe not in that gate,

cuz it doesn't sound like you maybe have this or maybe you do,

but when you're typically doing playback, what's,

what's the mini controller that you choose as a means to control and trigger

tracks?

Um, these days it's an iPad. Uh, and it has been for,

for a long time, like even before ABLE set, I was, I was, I was using an,

an iPad with Touch osc and I, you know, I'd set up a, a custom thing.

Um, actually, you know, one thing I, that we,

we did do on on Sean before, before we had able set running,

um, it was pretty crazy. It was pretty crazy as well. Um,

I had a, an iPad with, with touch over c running and,

and I had a page for every song. And on that, on and on on,

on that page was intro verse, you know, chorus, whatever,

essentially like able set's doing for us now. Right.

But it was all done sort of, you know, uh,

it was custom made as opposed to being available out the box. Yep. Um,

and that was interesting to keep on top of, but it was, it was,

it was a good way into able set because I, I already had that mindset, you know?

Um, but, uh, yeah, I think iPad has been my,

my main thing I've just been controlling with for a long time. Uh, you know,

previous to that I maybe used like an Q 25. Okay. You know,

it's just a 25 note keyboard. You know, any,

anything you can send a mini control out of Will will do. Yeah. Uh, and for me,

an iPad just kind of does it, it kind of does everything.

Yeah. That, um, you saying that took me back to, I was actually updating,

uh, so the,

one of the first like really cool things I ever did with playback was exactly

what you said with Touch Ooc. Every single page was a different song.

I had able to send in commands back to like pull up that page or that song when

we selected it in Ableton or I could select it on the iPad and jump there,

like whatever way we went. Um, it was incredibly, incredibly cool.

And I went to go update, uh, for the new touch o c update.

I was like updating my Touch Ooc course and I can't remember the timing exactly,

but I,

I believe Able set was out and I maybe adjust on the course or was about to,

but I'm like literally going through the Touch OSC course and I'm going,

I don't think anyone needs to do this anymore.

Like the the amount of work it was taking for me to create a page per song and

add the song sections, edit those, if we change the section, you know, just the,

the back and forth, like O C's still fantastic. It's still a f a great solution,

but exactly what you said, I realized halfway through, I'm like, wait,

able set does this, it's literally Yeah, exactly. Mini control on an iPad,

so That's true. Um, uh, Leo, if you're listening, uh,

we'll have to work out some sort of partnership sponsorship thing for this

episode because, uh, we're, we're definitely pushing Able said on this one. So,

um, Martin, just a couple other things I want to like, wrap up with here. Um,

one,

I'm gonna jump all the way back to the beginning and kind of tie this into a

couple different things we've talked about. Um,

what's one tip you have for people that are, are completely brand new,

they want to get into this and maybe they have that feeling you had before you,

you got hired to play keys for that band that you mentioned in the beginning.

Um, they, they feel insecure, unsure if they can do this.

What's one tip you have for them to say like,

here's a step to take in the right direction,

or here's something that's gonna help as like a little confidence boost to know,

Hey, you can do this, it's gonna work out.

I think the best thing I can suggest is, uh,

don't be scared to reach out to people. And like, as I said earlier,

for me,

my career has been determined by the people that I've met

and, you know,

the people I've stayed in touch with and the people I've reached out to,

whether it be fruitful or not, you know, uh, you know,

kind of making those connections. And really, honestly, that's,

that's the biggest thing for me is making those connections over the years. And,

you know, as someone that I was, I was never the,

the confident kid, you know, I was so, you know,

it took me a lot to, to really get into that mode. Um,

and, and honestly,

I think it's the best thing you can do is just really just go out there and

be yourself. Introduce yourself to people, make connections,

and like something will come, you know? Yeah, that's right. Whether it be,

whether it be, you know, uh, a gig here or there,

or even just a conversation starter, you know? Mm. Oh,

what gear are you using? You know, whatever. Like, it, it,

it can all lead to places that you wouldn't have been if you didn't make that

connection.

Yeah.

Um, and I think that's, that's probably the best of my second give. And,

you know, so much of what I have done and what I will do,

uh, has come from just being fairly like,

sort of out there and like, hi, you know? Yeah. Like, uh, hi.

Hi. Please talk to me. Um, and you know, obviously that,

that gets easier the more you do it, but as I say, I was,

I was never a confident kid. I was, you know, I,

I had a really bad stutter when I was a kid, so I was, I was,

I did not wanna talk to anyone. Mm-hmm. Uh, obviously social media has,

has helped that, uh, cause I don't have to talk to anyone, but, um, you know,

it was, it was a, it was a lot to, to overcome. Um, you know,

that that really like being quite reserved and having to now be

quite like, you know, straightforward and like having to be,

um, what's the word I'm looking for? Uh,

very direct front with people. Yeah. Direct. Yeah.

So what I will say is that if you are like that, like I was, you know,

just try your best to like get out of that and just put yourself out there

because yeah, nothing bad will come of it. It, it, it, it,

it can only be good things that will come of it. And uh,

as I say it, it may not be a gig that comes of it,

it may not be a page day. It may not be whatever, but something will come,

whether it be a conversation, whether it be a hookup, whether it be anything.

But it will all, you know,

accumulate to something that will lead somewhere eventually.

That's really good. Well, and as you're talking about all this, Martin,

I'm just thinking though, you are practicing what you're preaching,

you perfectly model what you just said because when I think of our very first

interaction, it was not, Hey, will, uh,

if you ever want to have me on your podcast, I'd love to be a guest.

And I'm like, who is this guy? It was, Hey, will, thanks for what you're doing.

I, I'm out there doing this. It's great to have content.

It was very just like two humans talking to each other, you know? And Yeah,

yeah, for sure. Um, when social media is at its best, that's what it is,

it's like, yeah. You know,

multiple humans just getting to know each other and talking to each other. Um,

and so, you know, I, again, I, I love, I want this to be a platform for, uh,

people like you to, to share your story,

for people to get to know what you're up to and what you're doing. And, um,

so again, thanks for, thanks so much for being here, Martin.

Thanks for taking time. Um, but I always wanna wrap up.

How can people find more about what you're up to?

Follow along with what you're doing,

maybe any tours you're up to or maybe even reach out and say, Hey,

I need some of that collaboration you talked about to like,

help take my show to the next level.

Yeah, no, for sure. I mean,

Instagram is probably the best place to find me these days. Uh, okay.

Which is Martin l Roberts. Um, yeah,

just kind of reach out anytime, anywhere. Uh,

I'm more than happy always to talk to people and, you know, if, if you are,

if you're new, if you are, whatever, you know, reach out. If, if,

if you need a hand, if you need advice, whatever, I'm more than happy.

And as I say, one of the,

one of the things I was sort of reaching out to you about is, you know,

trying to bring new, new talent into this industry,

because we are really lacking new talent here. Uh,

but also we are lacking old talent, not old in the age sense, but like,

you know, 20, 20, 20 21 really hit this industry hard. Yeah.

So a lot of the people we did have, have, have moved on.

They're not touring anymore. So we've really, you know,

we've kind of limited with the people we have now,

and the people that are still here are great. But, you know,

I think there's, there's a really big space for new talent,

new fresh and hungry talent to come in and occupy that space,

because that's what we need. We need,

we need these people that are hungry for it and willing to put the work in and

like willing to reach out to people and whatever, and make those connections.

And I'm all about that. So if you're new, if you are hungry to do something,

get in touch and I will happily either guide you the right place or

answer your questions or whatever. I'm here.

That's great. Well, you guys heard it from Martin. Now's the time.

If you're interested in this whatsoever, if you're a producer,

want to consider moving to the, the stage life. Uh, now's the time.

Just take the first step and, uh, maybe we'll see you on the road.

So thanks again, Martin.

Hi, sir.

All right, cheers.

Yes,

Gosh, I love that conversation with Martin so much. I,

I could have kept talking for about another hour, but there's so many great,

incredible things he shared in that conversation so much about mindset,

about his particular mindset,

trying to stay ahead of the curve to constantly challenge himself,

to constantly be wondering,

is there a better way to do it that I hope you can take and apply it to your

particular setup and scenario. Now, if you're brand new to this idea of,

of being a playback tech, of using tracks on stage,

if you wanna follow in Martin's path, uh,

then the best thing you can do is head to from studio to stage.com/subscribe.

Uh, and you can become a from studio to stage student while you're there.

You'll get access to all of my courses, the community,

my products and templates that I create. Uh,

and I'm gonna help you along the path and the journey of becoming a playback

tech or use enable to live, live on stage with your band.

So make sure you head there to check that out. And if you're not ready for that,

you just want to kind of try things out, see how all this works,

then make sure you subscribe on YouTube and able to bell icon so you see exactly

when we post brand new episodes of the podcast. And again,

make sure to also click the link in the show notes to head over to Martin's

profile on Instagram. Uh, shoot a message. Just say, man, thanks for that.

Let 'em know what you enjoyed from today's conversation. Martin, again,

thanks for your time. Thanks for your time,

everyone that's watching and listening to this,

and hope to see you on the next episode of Behind the Space Bar.

Take care everybody. Bye.